Stat of the Week...Top 15 in percentage of starts won since 1952 (min. 120 wins): 1. Warren Spahn 53.9%... 2. Juan Marichal 52.1%... 3. Ron Guidry 51.7%... 4. Whitey Ford 51.2%... 5. Roy Halladay 51.0%... 6. Pedro Martinez 50.9%... 7. Johan Santana 50.8%... 8. Bob Gibson 50.8%... 9. Sandy Koufax 50.6%... 10. Mike Mussina 50.4%... 11. Jim Palmer 50.3%... 12. Roger Clemens 50.1%... 13. Randy Johnson 49.9%... 14. Andy Pettitte 49.9%... 15. Jim Maloney 49.6%...
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Showing posts with label Niekro. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Niekro. Show all posts

"But If You Put Guidry In The Hall...

Posted by Gator Guy on Tuesday, June 2, 2009 , under , , , | comments (1)




...then don't you have to also induct [fill in the blank]?" I believe the name cited most frequently to fill in that blank is Dwight Gooden. It's true that the similarities between Gator and Doc are striking, so let's compare and contrast.

Any discussion of Dwight Gooden has to begin with the acknowledgment that he was the greatest pitching phenom in major league history. Only Feller comes close to Gooden's achievements before reaching the age of 21. He finished 2nd in Cy Young voting in his rookie year, shattering the record for most strikeouts per nine innings by more than two-thirds of a strikeout. He then had one of the greatest seasons ever in his sophomore year. He was Dr. K, and he was the biggest star in the game at the age of 20. There was talk that we might be witnessing the greatest pitcher in the history of the game. It didn't turn out that way.

The parallels between Guidry and Gooden are many. Both were absolute sensations in their first two full years; no pitcher has ever had a better two-year start than Guidry and Gooden. Each produced one of the greatest pitching seasons in history in his second year, winning the Cy Young Award unanimously. Neither again achieved the dominance he displayed in his second season, but each nonetheless proceeded to compile by far the highest winning percentage of any starting pitcher in his league over the next seven seasons. Each was a figurative runaway freight train down the stretch in pennant races in their first two full seasons. Each maintained a winning percentage over the first 200 decisions of his career approaching .700.

The similarities don't stop there.

A year-by-year approach I believe is a simple way to compare careers in more detail and depth than merely examining career totals. The following Guidry v. Gooden demonstration reveals striking similarities in the arcs of their respective careers.



















Again, the similarity in their careers is striking. There's not much to choose from in a comparison of their first four full seasons. And the statistical similarity continued for the balance of the respective productive careers. The following are Guidry's career totals and Gooden's totals through 1996 (the last season Gooden would pitch enough innings to qualify for the ERA title):






Almost identical, save for a meaningful, but not huge, edge for Guidry in the ERA+ number. Here's the difference, however. After Dwight's first four seasons he never really put together a season that clearly qualified him as one of the premier pitchers in his league. Despite putting up consistently good winning percentages for good Met teams, Gooden's ERAs and other statistical achievements were notably mediocre. Consider the following:


1. Gooden didn't lead the N.L. in a single major pitching category after his historic 1985 season. He didn't add a single point to his "Black Ink" total.

Guidry, by contrast, led the A.L. in major pitching categories numerous times after his great '78 season - ERA in 1979, WHIP in '81, complete games in '83, wins and winning percentage in '85, and fewest BB/IP in '86. Guidry added 15 Black Ink points after his '78 season - more than half his career total - and passed Gooden, 29 to 23.

2. After Gooden's first four seasons, he went five consecutive years in which he did not have a season with double-digit wins and an ERA+ greater than 102. During that stretch, his best ERA+ was 113 in 1989, but injuries limited Gooden to 9 wins and 118 IP. He won 19 and 18 games in '90 and '88, respectively, but had ERA+'s of only 102 and 98. Gooden would have only one more season in which he'd win more than 10 games and have an ERA+ greater than 102 - he had a 117 ERA+ in 1993 while struggling to a 12-15 record with a Mets team in decline.

Guidry, by contrast, added three more seasons over the latter half of his productive career in which he had both impressive win totals and an ERA+ significantly better than the average: '81, '83 and '85. He had two more 20 win seasons and two more seasons in which his ERA+ was at least 20% better than league average.

3. Gooden received only incidental consideration for the Cy Young Award after '85. Gooden finished 4th in '90, 5th in '87 and 7th in '86, and had only a .18 CY award vote share.

Guidry compiled a .87 CY award vote share after '78, finishing 2nd in '85, 3rd in '79, 5th in '83 and 7th in '81.

The simple fact is that Doc was never really a premier pitcher in the NL after his first three years. And as great as those three years were, three great years have never put anyone in the HOF. Guidry's first three years were also monumental, but he added three more years in '81, '83 and '85 when he was unquestionably one of the top pitchers in the AL, and was the lefthanded starter on the Sporting News annual all-star teams.

Throw in the big disparity in post-season performances and Guidry's edge over Gooden becomes decisive.

Quite simply, you can put Guidry in the Hall and leave Doc out, and no one could complain too much about Doc being done an injustice.

Sutton, Niekro and Blyleven

Posted by Gator Guy on Saturday, May 9, 2009 , under , , | comments (0)



My purpose here is to promote Ron Guidry's candidacy for the Hall of Fame, not deride Bert Blyleven's candidacy or anyone else's. I've raised the subject of Bert Blyleven in two posts for one very simple reason: Blyleven perfectly illustrates the difference between my conception of the Hall of Fame and the conception of those who focus almost exclusively on the accumulation of gaudy career statistics. In my view, the other camp is missing the forest for the trees. The best way to demonstrate the basic differences between the pro-Bert and anti-Bert camps (and, by so doing, describe how the two camps view the Hall of Fame differently) is to compare Bert once again to two pitchers whom Bert-Backers love to cite: Don Sutton and Phil Neikro.

The Bert Backers argue that Bert is essentially the same as Sutton and Neikro but with two important qualifications: Bert fell just short of the essentially arbitrary 300 win threshold, and Bert had materially better ERAs (in fact, Bert's advantage over Neikro in ERA+ is really not very significant - 118 to 115). These are fair and compelling arguments. Blyleven's statistics generally compare quite favorably to Sutton's and Niekro's.

But there's one area where the difference between Blyleven, on the one hand, and Sutton and Niekro, on the other, is quite striking. This difference virtually leaps from the pages of the baseball encyclopedias. Both Sutton and Niekro consistently and significantly outperformed their teams over an extended period while receiving run support comparable to that afforded the other pitchers on the staff. Bert Blyleven did not.

We've already looked at Bert's performance with teams that either won 90 or more games or were serious contenders for a division title (i.e., the years '71, '77 to '80 and '87 to '89) and learned that Bert's winning percentage in these years was actually lower than that of his teams. Now let's look at Bert's early peak years from '71 to '75, a period during which he would win more games and have lower ERAs than in any other comparable stretch in his career.

Bert had poor run support in both '71 but managed a 16-15 record for a 74-86 Twins team. That's what we'd expect a good pitcher to do - outperform his team even with inferior run support. But from '72 through '75 Bert received average run support from the Twins (the Twins averaged 4.18 r/g generally and 4.19 r/g for Bert) and went 69-61 for a winning percentage of .531. The Twins record in games in which Blyleven was not the pitcher of record was 316-321 for a .496 winning percentage. In other words, Bert performed approximately 7% better than the average Twins pitcher while receiving the same run support. And the average Twins pitcher against whom we're comparing Bert wasn't very good during this period - aside from 1972, when the Twins had a very good staff, the Twins team ERA+'s without Blyleven's contribution were below league average.

The contrast with Sutton and Niekro couldn't be more striking. From '71 to '80 Phil Niekro was approximately 20% better than his teams, compiling a .525 winning percentage for teams that had a winning percentage of .437 in games in which Niekro was not the pitcher of record. In effect, Phil Niekro made a last-place Braves team into a team on the cusp of contention when he took the mound - the difference between a .437 win% and a .525 win%.

From '71 to '80 Don Sutton compiled a .617 winning percentage for pretty good Dodger teams that had a .558 winning percentage in games in which Sutton wasn't the pitcher of record. The Dodgers had the record of a contender or solid, second-place team when Sutton wasn't pitching, but had the record of a 100-win pennant winner when Sutton was on the mound. Sutton improved on the Dodger's record by approximately 10.5%, an increase that looks even more impressive when you consider that the average Dodger pitcher upon whom Sutton was improving was a pretty good pitcher. The Dodgers consistently had one of the premier pitching staffs in the National League in that era, compiling team ERA+'s between 108 and 120 every year other than '71 and '79. But Sutton improved upon the best National League pitching staff of the '70s by 10.5%.

Great pitchers transform their teams. Great pitchers turn poor teams into mediocre teams, mediocre teams into good teams, and good teams into champions. That's what Guidry did between '77 and '85, compiling a winning percentage 26.5% better than that of his teams when other pitchers were on the mound.

The "he lacked run support" excuse does not explain why Bert Blyleven only marginally improved upon his team's performance. As we've seen, Bert generally received run support commensurate with that provided to other pitchers on his teams, and yet Bert barely won a higher percentage of his decisions than the rest of the staffs on these mediocre teams. There is no need to adjust for park factors, or control for differences among teams - the very average pitchers who lead Minnesota to mediocre records in the '70s were backed by the same offenses and defenses as Blyleven was. For large swaths of Blyleven's career, including during his prime years in the '70s and the late '80's, he generally received the same run support as other pitchers on his teams but compiled records only marginally better.

Whatever are the intangibles that make certain pitchers "winners", Bert didn't have them. Sutton and Niekro did, at least during the decade in which they were in their prime. And Ron Guidry possessed these intangibles in spades, in effect taking good Yankee teams in the late '70s and early/mid '80s and turning them into a .700 team - the 1927 or 1998 Yankees. Yes, he received slightly better run support than other pitchers on those teams, but only marginally, and the small difference in run support cannot begin to explain the vast difference between Ron's .697 winning percentage from '77 to '85 and the .552 winning percentage of the teams he played on in games in which other pitchers took the decision.

All of this leads back to the fundamental difference between the pro-Bert and anti-Bert camps in their conception of the Hall of Fame. I believe baseball is about winning, not piling up huge stats over lengthy careers. As a fan, I would rather my team have great players who had relatively short careers but produced World Series championships, pennants, division titles and exciting races in September. It's what baseball is all about. It's what turns entire cities into baseball hotbeds in September as their hometown team makes a run for glory. It's what gets your wife talking about baseball some years. It's why the butcher is talking about baseball on Saturday morning as you shop for something to put on the barbecue Labor Day weekend. It's about aspiring to win it all. And when it comes to the Hall of Fame, it's about talent and competitive drive so great that it etches itself into that epic, dramatic narrative arc that constitutes every baseball season. And it's about the great players who did the most to propel their teams not only to wins and championships but into the consciousness of the casual fan and into baseball lore. Those are the players who belong in the Hall of Fame.

The personal statistics sometimes capture the greatness of these players and sometimes don't, and statistics can look pretty similar but really mean completely different things. Bert Blyleven's 287 wins mean something quite different than Randy Johnson's 297 (and counting). The ostensible similarity between Koufax's and Guidry's career numbers mean different things as well, and in this case mean one pitcher was great enough for nine or ten seasons to be the best of his time, and the other was so dazzling for a brief 5 year period as to elevate him into the ranks of the greatest ever. The Hall of Fame has to be about more than a small selection of arid, three and four digit numbers. Presumably that's why HOF selections are delegated to the sportswriters and the players rather than the statisticians; the sportswriters and the players are there day after day during the season, observing not only the aspects of the game that show up in the boxscore but those that don't, as well.

The Veterans Committee of the Hall of Fame has evinced an understanding of this in the past. Lefty Gomez and Stan Coveleski and Hal Newhouser may not have been 250 game winners, but there were Veterans Committee members who remembered actually being on the field with these guys and remembered things that sterile stats can't hope to convey. They remembered that these guys were intense competitors who were just damn tough to beat. They remembered that these guys were great pitchers for many years, and were considered among the best pitchers in the game during their prime, even if they didn't play 18 or 20 years and rack up those 250 W's. They remembered what it was like to actually stand in the batters box against these guys, where a hitter doesn't need a stat sheet to know who the great pitchers are.

Here's hoping there are enough guys on the Veterans Committee who remember competing against Ron Guidry, because anyone who does ought to be a surefire vote for Gator's induction in the Hall of Fame.